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Thread: air soft bb's for tire balancing

  1. #1
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    Default air soft bb's for tire balancing

    so has anyone on here done this? ive read good reviews of the dyna beads but they don't seem to be that easy to find locally. ive also read a few write ups on people using the airsoft bb's and having good results. ive decided that its time to pull my bike out of the shed and put a new battery and back tire on it and start riding again. i am gonna go pick up the battery monday but havent decided if im gonna just get the tire mounted and balanced there or just pick the tire up and change it myself and balance with the airsoft bb's. i understand balancing with dyna/bb's can actually improve the milage of a tire because it stays balanced and pressure doesn't affect the balance where as if you balance a tire at say 42 psi and it gets low and you run it at 35 it wont be balanced properly.

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    I think dynabeads work but I would only use them in situations where conventional balancing will not work.
    Dynabeads can be installed through the valve stem, IIRC. Airsoft bbs will probably not fit through the valve stem. So, if your bike has tubes you probably can't use the BBs.
    I'd just check Cycle Gear and they have a pretty good deal on a tire I'd let them mount and balance it.
    i understand balancing with dyna/bb's can actually improve the milage of a tire because it stays balanced and pressure doesn't affect the balance where as if you balance a tire at say 42 psi and it gets low and you run it at 35 it wont be balanced properly.
    Hunh?

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    [QUOTE=derf;79049]I think dynabeads work but I would only use them in situations where conventional balancing will not work.
    Dynabeads can be installed through the valve stem, IIRC. Airsoft bbs will probably not fit through the valve stem. So, if your bike has tubes you probably can't use the BBs.
    I'd just check Cycle Gear and they have a pretty good deal on a tire I'd let them mount and balance it.

    Hunh?[/QUOTE]

    what do you mean huh. the balance of a tire is only good if kept at that psi. so say you balance your car tires with 40 psi and find it rides to rough drop the pressure to 35 and your tires are no longer balanced. it may not be a huge amount off but it is off. ive seen this ive seen this a couple of times first hand. once was on a set of 20's the tire guy balanced the first one and was starting on the second when i asked him what he had my pressure at he had it at 35. i asked him to push it up to 41 he did and rechecked the balance on the first one and it was off. i think i may have only been 1/2 oz or 1/4 maybe i don't remember what he added but it did change. using beads for balancing is supposed to keep the tires balanced at all pressures. in return is suppossed to give better mileage from the tires. im not sure that it actually will but that is what ive read on a couple of diff places.

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    where is cycle gear i keep hearing about them. i usually use winners cycle and they aren't bad $20 for mount and balance. but again ive just heard so much good about dyna beads. it was actually just recently when i was searching for a place to get dyna beads that i found out about people using air soft bb's. also see where people are using regular metal bb's with good results but have read some negative about them also saying they can damage the inside of a tire and rim so i definatly will be staying away from them.

    as far as the air softs though you may be right that they might not fit in the valve stem.

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    I've used the airsoft beads on my truck (I balance my own motorcycle wheels). No, they do not fit in the tire stem, yes...you'll have to break the bead and put them in between the tire and rim. I took them out after 5k miles. It would take too long at speed for them to evenly spread around the tire. Riding on the highway/interstate it wasn't that bad, but around town things wouldn't settle down cause of the varying speeds. I have buddies who run the Dynabeads in their bike tires who swear by them though. I just have yet to find a need for them.
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    I mean hunh? because tires are balanced on a machine with no load on them. Tire pressure varies somewhat during usage. You can start at 35PSI cold but when you get rolling the temp rises and the pressure rises. I'd like to see a tire balanced on a machine at 40PSI and then deflated to 35PSI and checked on the same machine. I think if you have the proper tire, size, style, and load range for your vehicle then the differences of balance between recommended pressure and recommended pressure plus or minus 10 should be negligible.
    Your friend with the 20s might have had harmonics or suspension problems, or a bad tire, too.

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    It was my 20's and I watched the balance change on the machine.

    Thanks ritten that is what I was looking for some real life expierience from one of y'all

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    I balanced many a tire in high school working at a service station.
    Unless there is some deformity in the tire I don't see how air can make a difference in balancing the rotating mass.
    I have been wrong in the past, though, and welcome correction.

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    it may not happen every time derf and it may not happen at all on smaller car tires. but like i said i have seen it first hand on the bigger tires. this was with a 275-45-20 tire. ive also read on offroad forums about it being pretty bad on the bigger mud tires when they air down. as bad as balancing at normal running pressure and then when aired down being almost uncontrollable at 40mph. my idea behind it and it could be wrong, is when you run a tire under pressure and spin it you will get some growth from centrifigul force. by doing this it throws the tire out of round and throws the balance off. with the beeds its supposed to correct that by going to where they need to be. this is all theory but it seems like a good possibility. the other time i saw a tire act like this was actually on a set of mud tires. we aired them down to around 30psi so that we could still be able to drive after we finished playing in the sand but when we left it shook like a sob aired back up to normal pressure and all was fine again. ths was on a set of 31" mud brutes.

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    OK, I like to debate and learn. I understand how the beads work. I think Ritten's post has been the most informative for me. I didn't know there was such a delay in the beads working.
    The pressure/balance issue would probably be more prevalent in extreme size cases, i.e. tires with very large sidewalls or very small sidewalls. You know, Ferraris and Grave Diggers.

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    Default air soft bb's for tire balancing

    Quote Originally Posted by sksshooter
    It was my 20's and I watched the balance change on the machine.

    Thanks ritten that is what I was looking for some real life expierience from one of y'all
    You have been decieved. After mounting thousands of tires using top quality equipment I can tell you that after balancing, sometimes you can drop the hood and spin the tire and get a clean balance then do it again and get off by a .25, it happens.

    Balancing is all about weight in relation between the tire and the wheel. Weight is not affected by air preassure.
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    i can accept that on my set of 20's but you will have to explain on the mud tires. if they are still balanced at lower pressures then they should ride just as well. so even though the tires will grow at higher speads they should still be balanced so why would they ride bad and then ride fine when aired back up? and when i say aired down i dont mean to 15psi im talking from 40ish down to around 30 just to give a little give to the tire.

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    If balance were effected by air pressure you would see it at 55 mph and everyone would be commenting on it.

    If balance were that crucial to shape, how would they balance on a machine round, and when you put them on a car there is a flat spot from touching the ground.

    It took over an hour to balance the tires on my dodge.
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    Default air soft bb's for tire balancing

    Quote Originally Posted by sksshooter
    i can accept that on my set of 20's but you will have to explain on the mud tires. if they are still balanced at lower pressures then they should ride just as well. so even though the tires will grow at higher speads they should still be balanced so why would they ride bad and then ride fine when aired back up? and when i say aired down i dont mean to 15psi im talking from 40ish down to around 30 just to give a little give to the tire.
    If a tire rides bad at different pressure it's because of the tread design and sidewall heigth not balancing. The size and shape of the tire have nothing to do with the balance, just the weight. The only data the balance machine considers is rim diameter a width.

    On another note, Mud tires are notirious for being hard to balance.
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    The GSP9700 Vibration Control System includes Hunter's exclusive Road Force Measurement System to help detect potential tire uniformity causes of vibration that are not balance-related. This system utilizes a "road roller" which applies up to 1,400 pounds (635 kg) of force against the wheel and tire assembly to measure their combined uniformity. This simulated road force test helps verify if the assembly is "round" when rolling under load.

    The GSP9700 Vibration Control System can also measure lateral and radial rim runout (out of roundness or side-to-side movement) to identify and separate wheel runout from tire runout. The system then calculates the contributions of the wheel and the tire to a potential vibration and presents the service specialist with easy-to-follow instructions on the appropriate corrective actions.


    So air pressure can effect the contact patch which can be change the effective shape Of the tire under load, the runnout which can be changed by lower or higher air pressure will effect the balance as well.

    Whether or not you can tell the difference on your vehicle or not depends on your specific vehicle as well as the percentage of tolerance that you balanced wheel and tire combination is within, which is pretty small in reality but can make a difference. Generally the more high performance car, combined with more feedback transmitted through the steering to driver, will let you know on a vehicle.

    I have been able to tell on BMWs and even more on Porsche when tires are a few psi low than usually kept and have had tires have balance issues that could be corrected fully by adjusting the air pressure, and other time only partially by adjusting air pressure.

    Hunter, seems to say in their two paragraphs up there that air pressure can effect runout and runnout can effect balance.

    I wonder if you guys know more that the excepted experts at building tire balance machines.
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    Oh and I had a motorcycle that have severe headsheak due to a tire not balancing without a crap load of weights, and that tire and wheel also needed very consisten air pressure to keep from sending the vibration to the handlebars between exactly 57 and 65 miles and hour indicated on a mechanical cable sensor off the front hub speed sensor.
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    Although hunter PUSHES road force technology. They STILL balance tires on a rod in some countries, and some tires like on my deuce were NEVER balanced.

    I don't buy hunters claims. If that was the case, no one would buy/use a 'regular' balancer.

    Road force is the same IMHO of chevron with TECHRON.
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    Cold versus hot will be a change of a few PSI.
    The wheel and tire are most of the rotating mass, but not all. You have hubs and rotors, too.
    Good tires are more concentric than cheap tires. I find Michelins to be better, in general, than most other tires.
    More than a few PSI difference in tires on a Porsche, BMW, Miata or other sports car could change the suspension geometry and be more easily felt by the driver than in a truck or suv or sedan.

    I think if you're within 10 PSI of the recommended pressure on the tire and it changes balance because of the difference then you have a bad tire, or an extreme circumstance, like 40 or lower aspect ratio tires, or huge sidewalled truck tires. You might feel the difference in certain vehicles, but the tires shouldn't go out of balance because of it. You also have to consider harmonics, suspension, shocks, etc.

    I think the beads are like Nitrogen. They work, but they don't really perform as well as some would have you believe. Two valve stems and running pure Nitrogen is cool, but c'mon man, is it that much better than air? Shouldn't you have 4 valve stems to keep the wheel balanced properly? Wouldn't one or two make the wheel out of round at 200+ mph? I guess not with the dyna beads.

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    I run dyna beads on the husky. They work.... Plenty well
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashzero View Post
    Oh and I had a motorcycle that have severe headsheak due to a tire not balancing without a crap load of weights, and that tire and wheel also needed very consisten air pressure to keep from sending the vibration to the handlebars between exactly 57 and 65 miles and hour indicated on a mechanical cable sensor off the front hub speed sensor.
    Could be tire, rim out of round, rim runout, hub runout, bad bearings, brake rotor, fork, or any combination. Again harmonics play a huge role. Air pressure over the fairings at that speed could cause vibration that coincides with a harmonic of the frame geometry. Whatever, a headshake is usually a standing wave caused by front rotating mass vibration.

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